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Sveinn
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PostSubject: Basic phrases   Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:09 pm

This is the beginning to my Old Norse Course, which I began a few years ago... still needs a lot of work.
It would be good to have some discussion on these phrases and what they should be... it's not as if I can
just look these things up in the sagas... "And then Eyvindr said 'Alright?... What you been up to?' "
Odinn

I will simply copy and paste... Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Essentials:

Hei - Hi! (informal greeting)

Heill - Hello! (when addressing one male)
Heil - Hello! (when addressing one female)
Heilir - Hello! (when addressing a group of males)
Heilar - Hello! (when addressing a group of females)
Heil - Hello! (when addressing a group of both sexes)

Sæll - Hello! (when addressing one male)
Sæl - Hello! (when addressing one female)
Sælir - Hello! (when addressing a group of males)
Sælar - Hello! (when addressing a group of females)
Sæl - Hello! (when addressing a group of both sexes)

‘Heill’ involves wishing good health … whereas ‘Sæll’ simply wishes happiness.

Góðan dag/Góðan daginn - Good day!
Góðan morgin - Good morning!
Góðan aptan - Good afternoon!
Gott kveld - Good evening!
Góða nótt - Good night!
Sof þú vel - Good night! (sleep well)

Velkominn - Welcome! (when addressing one male)
Velkomin - Welcome! (when addressing one female)
Velkominir - Welcome! (when addressing a group of males)
Velkominar - Welcome! (when addressing a group of females)
Velkomin - Welcome! (when addressing a group of both sexes)

Hvat segir þú? - How are you? (formal)
Hversu ferr? - How are you? (informal)
Hvernug hefir þú þat? - How are you? (slang/colloquial)

Allt fínt, þakka - Fine, thanks.
Allt gott, þakka - Good, thanks.
Allt vel, þakka - Well, thanks.
Allt ágætt, þakka - Awesome, thanks.
Ágeatavel, þakka! - Excellent, thanks!

En þú? - And you?

Far vel - Goodbye
Sjáumst - See you
Vit sjáumst - See you (said between two people)
Vér sjáumst - See you (said between more than two)

Já - Yes
Nei - No

Gør þú svá vel - Please (when offering something and when asking for something)
Gørið þit svá vel - Please (when talking to two other people)
Gørið þér svá vel - Please (when talking to many other people)
Svá vel - Please (informal)
Gørvel - Please (informal)
Þakka fyrir - Thank you
Þakka - Thanks
Þak - Thanks (very informal)
Ekki at þakka/Þat var ekki - You’re welcome (‘nothing to thank’/‘it was nothing’)
Þat var svá lítit - You’re welcome (‘that was so little’)

Ek veit (þat) eigi - I don’t know
Ek skil (þat) eigi - I don’t understand

Afsaka - Excuse me (getting attention)
Fyrirgef þú - Excuse me (begging pardon)
Hvat segir þú? - I’m sorry (didn’t hear) – said as a question with rising inflection
Fyrirgef mik - I’m sorry (regretful)
Fyrirgef - Sorry/Excuse me (informal)
Allt er gott - That’s okay


Last edited by Sveinn on Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : bad grammar)
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Bruni
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:47 pm

These are really great and very useful!!! Ive just started trying to learn them. Ive really got to grips with saying:

Heil, Velkomin, Hversu Ferr? . . . . . . . Allt Fint, Thakka.

Which is so brill, its my favorite sentence at the mo.

Just one thing has been bothering me in regards to Old Norse, is the pronounciation. I have printed out a list of the consonants and their phonetic soundings so I understand what they should sound like in words, but the words themselves, how much emphasis has to be placed on the actuall pronounication? Is there a particular flow or rythm??

]:-{I)
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:54 pm

Nothing is really certain on that matter...

Though "An Introduction To Old Norse" has a very good theory on pronunciation which has helped me a lot. In terms of rhythm you can only listen to modern Faroese, Icelandic and Norwegian.

I will put all my sources together and try and come up with a proper pronunciation guide.

I would also love to have sound-files of the pronunciations of many words. This is something that I will try to do at a later date.
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:06 pm

Takka,

I Just wondered as I have been asked that alot recently. I will carry on listening to the languages you suggested and see if I can get myself in a rythm with the shorter phrases. Im really enthusiastic about learning Old Norse, I just want to do it in the right way so I have the confidence to actually use it and inform people about it. But Yes, sound files would be fantastic, that is one thing that is certainly lacking in the general study of Old Norse, especially on the internet.

]:{I)
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:30 pm

Terminology:

I have a question which is rather off on a tangent.

I am researching about the Vikingr Age shield. I understand from my readings that in Old Norse it would be called a Skjold (this has parallels with modern Icelandic and also Norwegian). However, what would the terms be for the boss, grip, nails and clamps be in Old Norse?? A colleague and I have just had a very passionate discussion about terminology, and I know that in the 12th -15th Centuries the word "buckler" is being used as a transitional term for a small shield and in several modern Scandinavian texts/language "buckler" appears to describe the boss in an archaeological setting. However during th 8th-12th Centuries do you know what these terms may be in Old Norse? Is there one? or is there no real evidence and we just deal with a Viking shield in terms of calling it a Skjold????

I would be very interested to hear what other people think on the matter.

Takka

Bruni ]:{I)
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:37 pm

Bruni wrote:
Terminology:

I have a question which is rather off on a tangent.

I am researching about the Vikingr Age shield. I understand from my readings that in Old Norse it would be called a Skjold (this has parallels with modern Icelandic and also Norwegian). However, what would the terms be for the boss, grip, nails and clamps be in Old Norse?? A colleague and I have just had a very passionate discussion about terminology, and I know that in the 12th -15th Centuries the word "buckler" is being used as a transitional term for a small shield and in several modern Scandinavian texts/language "buckler" appears to describe the boss in an archaeological setting. However during th 8th-12th Centuries do you know what these terms may be in Old Norse? Is there one? or is there no real evidence and we just deal with a Viking shield in terms of calling it a Skjold????

I would be very interested to hear what other people think on the matter.

Takka

Bruni ]:{I)

No tangents. A perfectly valid and also interesting question. Very Happy

Well, yes, they're called 'skildir' (shields) or 'skjöld' if it's just the one.
But the Norse men loved to fight so of course they loved naming all the different parts of their favourite toys;
so they had plenty of words to describe each bit.
Right... well... the best book to help you would be Zoega's dictionary. (Best Old Norse to English dictionary there is)
Which has loads of words to do with shields and their parts... but the only problem is you can't really look it up in reverse... (hence my new dictionary I'm writing which goes from English to Old Norse ^_^) but I did take note of a few terms which should help... right...
Well if you want to be specific you can say 'round shields' = 'kringskildir'... or just the one 'round shield' = 'kringskjöldr'

The boss is actually called 'skjaldarbukl' (shield boss) or just 'bukl' (boss) or 'buklitt' (the boss)
So that does make sense as a boss without the shield may aswell just be a buckler. I don't think it may be so much to do with there being any transition as a term... so much as that you can actually just use a shield boss on its own. (even if it is a larger one)

The rim is called 'skjaldarrönd' (shield-border) or 'röndin' (the rim)

And the strap is called 'skjaldarfetill' (shield-strap) or 'fetillinn' (the strap)

And any other terms I can't be sure about... I'm sure there are more in Zoega... hopefully I can buy a copy of Zoega's and scour through for terms to do with shields. It should also help a lot with my English - Norse dictionary.
Hope that helps. Odinn

P.S. I get the feeling you are a reenactor. Which group?
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:28 pm

Ah thats really really helpful, thanks Sveinn. Very Happy

Those names have definately given me some food for thought, and settled alot of questions in my head. Most interesting.

Yes I am a re-enactor, my group is based down in Hertfordshire, the twist is we are a English Martial Arts Group more than anything and we do several medieval events each year, I'm trying to persuade my lot to do a few more Vikingr related re-enactments/martial things. Our website is www.backswording.co.uk. We were up at Arbroathe in 2008 on the Vikingr ships which was cool. But yep I love my Vikingr weapons and warfare, Norse terminology however is a new area I'm branching into. So truely thank you for your help. Very Happy

Bruni
]:-[I)
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:18 am

Awesome! I'm a member of a reenactment group whom prefer to be referred to as a Dark Age theatre.
Ormsgard we're called... but I've had to take a break because I've just had a son. Smile
But when we're all settled I can start going back.

We started doing spear-drills for shows, mainly just to practice our skills but also because it looked cool.
But the commands were all in English... so I made up a sheet of all the commands in Old Norse. I don't know how relevant
they might be to you and your group but it could be of some use.

I'll explain a few of them in case you don't understand how they are used.

Brandr (m) / Brandir - Sword / Swords
Sverð (n) - Sword
Hjörr (m) / Hjörvar - Sword / Swords

Øx (f) / Øxa - Axe / Axes
Handøx (f) - Hand-axe
Langøx (f) - Dane Axe

Sax (n) - Seax
Handsax (n) - Hand-seax
Langsax (n) - Long seax

Geirr (m) / Geirar - Spear / Spears
Spjót (n) - Spear / Spears
Langskepta (f) - Long spear
Snarspjót (n) - Short spear or Javelin

Bogi (m) / Bogar - Bow / Bows
Langbogi (m) - Long bow
Ýbogi (m) - Yew bow
Askbogi (m) - Ash bow
Álmbogi (m) - Elm bow
Ör (f) / Örvar - Arrow / Arrows

Skjöldr (m) / Skildir - Shield / Shields
Hjálmr (m) / Hjálmar - Helmet / Helmets

Minn - My (m)
Mín - My (f)
Mitt - My (n)

Sverð minn - My sword
Øx mín - My axe
Sax mitt - My sax

Skjöldr þinn - Your shield
Ör þín - Your bow
Snarspjót þitt - Your short spear

Hvar er hjálmr minn? - Where is my helmet?

Tak þú skjöld (þinn)! - Grab (your) [a] shield! (to one person)
Takið þér (yðart) spjót! - Grab (your) spears! (to many people)

(Ert þú) búinn? - (Are you) ready? (to one male) [when whoever takes charge of the drill asks this, everyone gets ready into a guard position with their spears and lets loose a herop (battle-whoop/war-cry) of "Já!"
(Ert þú) búin? - (Are you) ready? (to one female)
(Eruð þér) búinir? - (Are you) ready? (to a group of males)
(Eruð þér) búinar? - (Are you) ready? (to a group of females)
(Eruð þér) búin? - (Are you) ready? (to a group of both sexes)

[sometimes we get just one person to do the drill on his/her own to see if there's room for improvement... thus I've included the question referring to one person, male or female, and a group of males or females in case the women or men didn't turn up that day. :P]

Já! - Yes! [the battle-whoop]
Höfuð! - Head! [now the caller names the types of attack... this attack is a strong downward strike to the face or head]
Øxl! - Shoulder! [cutting across horizontally to hit in the upper arm or shoulder... neck possibly]
Lær! - Thigh! [striking downwards diagonally at the upper leg with intent to trip or cripple]
Til baka - Back… (returning) [taking a step back to prepare for finishing blow]
Magi! - Belly! [the killing blow, a thrust through the stomach]
Veg/Vegið! - Kill! (talking to one person/talking to many people) [the same move as Magi but more enthusiastic]
Vend þér - Turn (talking to one person) [turning round 180 degrees to start the drill again in opposite direction]
Vend yðr - Turn (talking to many people)

Veg hann! - Kill him! [these are just some taunts... this one more for people watching and encouraging their comrades]
Dey! - Die!
Hrafnarnir munu hafa þik! - The ravens will have you!
Krákarnir munu hafa þik! - The crows will have you!
Ek man vega þik eins ok svín! - I will slay you like a pig!
Þú berð eins ok lítil píka/genta! - You fight like a little bitch/girl!
Hel taki þik! - May Hel take you!
Far þú í arsgat! - F*ck off! (lit. Go into the arsehole!)
Skítðu þér í brottu! - P*ss off! (lit. Sh*t yourself away!)
Skítkarl! - Bastard!
Fífl! - Fool!
Ek várkann fíflitt! - I pity the fool! [a bit of a joke :P]
Gór mik eigi, heimskt troll! - Don’t disrespect me, stupid troll!
Heimskr saxar! - Stupid Saxon!
Ljótr saxar! - Ugly Saxon!
Saurigr saxar skítkarl! - Dirty Saxon bastard!
Heimsk víking! - Stupid Viking!
Ljót víking! - Ugly Viking!
Saurig víking skítkarl! - Dirty Viking bastard!
Heimskr skítkarl! - Stupid bastard!
Ljótr skítkarl! - Ugly bastard!
Saurigr skítkarl! - Dirty bastard!

Óðins skegg! - By Odin’s beard! [expressions of surprise I guess. XD]
Ýmirs eistna! - By Ýmir’s balls!
Ýmirs frosteistna! - By Ýmir’s frosty balls!
Þórs gnýreið! - Thor’s roaring thunder! [or anger perhaps]


Last edited by Sveinn on Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : bad grammar)
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:34 pm

WOW!!!!! THESE ARE AWESOME!!!
I'm sure these will be very useful too, thanks. I would like to do more Dark Age re-enactment, its finding the right sword brothers whom you can trust. But yes very familiar with weapons training, love it!!!

Congratulations on the little one Very Happy

Bruni ]:-{I)
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:56 pm

Sveinn wrote:
Góðt kveld - Good evening!
Sofðú vel - Good night! (sleep well)
Gørðú svá vel - Please
Allt er góðt - That’s okay

Sverð (m) - Sword
Sverð minn - My sword

Takðú skjöld (þinn)! - Grab (your) [a] shield! (to one person)
Takið þér (yður) spjót! - Grab (your) spears! (to many people)

Hrafnarnir munu þik at hafa! - The ravens will have you!
Krákarnir munu þik at hafa! - The crows will have you!

Just a few corrections to the above posted..
There´s no góðt in Old Norse, only gott:

Gott kveld - Good evening!
Allt er gott - That’s okay

The personal pronoun þú when joined as a suffix misses its length:
Sofðu vel - Good night! (sleep well)
Gørðu svá vel - Please
Taktu skjöld (þinn)! - Grab (your) [a] shield! (to one person)

Sverð is (n), not (m):
Sverð mitt - My sword

Takið þín (yður) spjót! - Grab (your) spears! (to many people)

Hrafnarnir munu hafa þik! - The ravens will have you!

There's a good online course of Old Norse grammar, much recommended:

http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/norol-TC-X.html
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:35 pm

Electron wrote:
Sveinn wrote:
Góðt kveld - Good evening!
Sofðú vel - Good night! (sleep well)
Gørðú svá vel - Please
Allt er góðt - That’s okay

Sverð (m) - Sword
Sverð minn - My sword

Takðú skjöld (þinn)! - Grab (your) [a] shield! (to one person)
Takið þér (yður) spjót! - Grab (your) spears! (to many people)

Hrafnarnir munu þik at hafa! - The ravens will have you!
Krákarnir munu þik at hafa! - The crows will have you!

Just a few corrections to the above posted..
There´s no góðt in Old Norse, only gott:

Gott kveld - Good evening!
Allt er gott - That’s okay

The personal pronoun þú when joined as a suffix misses its length:
Sofðu vel - Good night! (sleep well)
Gørðu svá vel - Please
Taktu skjöld (þinn)! - Grab (your) [a] shield! (to one person)

Sverð is (n), not (m):
Sverð mitt - My sword

Takið þín (yður) spjót! - Grab (your) spears! (to many people)

Hrafnarnir munu hafa þik! - The ravens will have you!

There's a good online course of Old Norse grammar, much recommended:

http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/norol-TC-X.html

By Óðins beard... you're right! Good job you pointed them out, I'd written this a few years ago when I'd just started studying, so I knew there were a few errors, but I must have not had the time to correct it.

Well you've done your homework, study as you're right about most things...

It is indeed gott and not góðt. Smile

However, we were both wrong about ðu. sofðú isn't right at all... but sofðu isn't either as it is only a feature of modern Icelandic. When I read the sagas and eddas, I found that it was written in full as "Sof þú" etc.

Sverð is definitely neuter. I don't know why I got confused there. I got it straight from Zoega's dictionary. Embarassed
Maybe if there was such a word as sverðr... but nei. Sverð is indeed neuter. So thank you again for that one.

I don't know what you mean about the Takið þín...
Takið þín (yður) spjót! - Grab (your) spears! (to many people)

It's to many people, so it's "þér" and not "þit" nor "þú".
Taka is tak in singular imperative... and takið for plural imperative. So it would be takið þér

Spjót is both singular and plural for spear/spears.

So Takið þér spjót = Grab some spears (talking to many)
However, what I noticed now aswell... is that yður is wrong. "yður" is feminine... but spjót is neuter.
It should be yðart. Very Happy

For "your"... so it's "Takið þér (yðart) spjót"

Finally, you are right about "Hrafnarnir munu hafa þik! - The ravens will have you!"
I think my study of German must have got in the way. :P I was probably thinking of the German infinitive rules and syntax for some ungodly reason. But then again, the syntax in German of sending verbs to the end came from Latin after the translation of the Latin bible into German. Which is many years later than Old Norse anyway! XD And German isn't even anything like Norse. Not even the same branch of Germanic!

"Die Raben werden dich haben." "Hrafnarnir munu þik at hafa." X
"The ravens will have you." "Hrafnarnir munu hafa þik." √

Much better...
So thank you for pointing those out. In fact, I think I will go through that whole publication, to edit mistakes as I'm sure there are many more. But I appreciate your input! And that site is indeed a great help so please post it in the links part of the forum... or I shall. Odinn
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:30 pm

Quote :
Þakka fyrir - Thank you
Þakka - Thanks
Þak - Thanks (very informal)

Er þat "þak", ellar "þakk/þǫkk" ?
Ek kann eigi finna þetta orð...
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:20 pm

Actually, Þak is a word... but in actuality it means "bed-cover" :P
Maybe "Þakk" would be better... I was guessing at a slangy term for thanks based on modern Scandinavian.

Hmmmm... this whole phrase book needs revising! I still have not yet done so... I think this is something the project needs to do together.

I think "Þakka fyrir", "Þakka" or "Þakk" should be used... but "Bed-cover" doesn't really express gratitude does it! XD

Takk fyri, and Takk fyrir are Faroese and Icelandic... if one has not influenced the other, it can be evidence that the phrasing was used at a time before Faroese and Icelandic had no distinction (Old Norse)... but I have not yet found it in literature, if you could find it being used, it would be fantastic news for the project. Þǫkk could be used in the same way we use "Thanks" in English... perhaps shortened from "You have my thanks". Þakk could be used in the way that Takk, Tak, and Tack are used in modern languages.

I think the safest option is "Þakka" or "Ek þakka" or "Þakka ek" which all mean "I thank." Which is an obvious contraction of "Ek þakka þik" which is a bit too long as a standard phrase. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:37 pm

Ok svá skil ek ekki hví er þat "sjáumst", ok ekki "sjáumk"... Er þat ein yngri mynd ?
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:58 pm

Áha, yes you were right. Sjáumst is a younger form but I think it's too young for our standard.

Sjáumsk is the correct form as standardised from "A New Introduction to Old Norse" by Michael Barnes. Smile
Thanks, Ásleikr. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Basic phrases   Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:31 am

Hello everyone! I'm new here, but I had a question.

How would you say "STOP!" Like, telling someone to stop moving; ie: in German you would say "Halt!/Halten Sie!"
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